tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post9048319618040223067..comments2023-12-25T23:40:17.701-05:00Comments on Confessions of a Carioca: TREC: The Good, the Bad, and the UglyDaniel Martinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15980949721733826978noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-77956545363181293772015-02-11T14:25:30.023-05:002015-02-11T14:25:30.023-05:00Bishop Dan,
I liked your article so much, I quoted...Bishop Dan,<br />I liked your article so much, I quoted a portion of it in our Soundings Blog. Keep up the fire!<br />http://sanjoaquinsoundings.blogspot.com/2015/02/nbc-and-tec-are-treating-symptoms.htmlDale Matsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12975212053636312471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-63187629659013254202015-02-10T13:13:55.831-05:002015-02-10T13:13:55.831-05:00"The Episcopal Church’s identity is rooted in..."The Episcopal Church’s identity is rooted in Jesus and his Way." This seems carefully crafted to avoid saying, 'The Episcopal Church's identity is rooted in Jesus Christ as the Way, the Truth and the Life.'Dale Matsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12975212053636312471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-5218727533927386252015-01-21T09:31:01.839-05:002015-01-21T09:31:01.839-05:00Jesse, your point is well-taken. It was not my int...Jesse, your point is well-taken. It was not my intent to imply that a diocese exists in a vacuum, but was trying to channel the still rich and vibrant ecclesiology of Vatican II's Lumen Gentium. (Ironically, the Roman Catholic Church, in its monolithic structure, is an exemplar of failing to live up to the very vision.) And your "more interesting question" is a great one. I believe in mutuality and interdependence among Christian communities. But the TREC proposal looks to me like it's trying to tip the scale to DEpendence and only one-way accountability.Bishop Daniel Martinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18341528414941408086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-45833177931959591582015-01-20T16:02:17.521-05:002015-01-20T16:02:17.521-05:00OK, I know there's a huge history behind the e...OK, I know there's a <b><i>huge</i></b> history behind the excursus on the autonomy of dioceses. And I don't want to distract this comment thread from your comments on the TREC report. But I'll bite.<br /><br />I like this line—"The diocese, represented iconically in the bishop, presbyters, deacons, and baptized faithful gathered in synod at the eucharistic table, is the fundamental ecclesial unit"—but I don't quite agree with it. Where does the bishop come from? Bishops are made by other bishops (three of them at least, we believe). A diocese can't produce its own bishops in the way it can produce its own presbyters and deacons. So those relationships with other dioceses aren't just a good thing and a nice option (as you seem to imply) but a necessary part of being the church. How we manage those relationships and with what degree of formality, synodality, etc. is a key question?<br /><br />I actually think the more interesting question is not the downward question—how independent can TEC dioceses be?—but the upward one: if TEC defines itself as being part of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church, then why does this hierarchy stop rather abruptly at the water's edge (or, rather, the edges of the water of Province IX)?<br /><br />And I should say I wrote about these issues at greater length in <a href="http://livingchurch.org/why-provinces-matter" rel="nofollow">The Living Church some while back</a>. One of the respondents to that essay quoted Frank Griswold, speaking of Gene Robinson's consecration, "We thought it would be a local affair." That can never be the case. I doubt you would disagree. But that seems to be one outcome of the argument you are making here.<br /><br />We could continue this conversation at greater length with some lengthier discussion of historical precedent, but I'll stop here.Jesse Zinkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11186900475486233243noreply@blogger.com