tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post1559729844210302778..comments2023-12-25T23:40:17.701-05:00Comments on Confessions of a Carioca: Toward General Convention III: Celebrating the SaintsDaniel Martinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15980949721733826978noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-58362846431619733052012-06-23T02:11:46.298-04:002012-06-23T02:11:46.298-04:00Paging through the "Blue" Book, I came u...Paging through the "Blue" Book, I came upon a section entitled "Alternative Collects," proposed by the SCLM.<br /><br />Pausing to read a few of them, I was sorry (though not surprised) to note that whoever is in charge of turning mock-contemporary English into mock-Tudor English really hasn't a clue.<br /><br />I saw such delights as these: "Mary Ramabai, who didst seek"; "O God who loveth thy people"; and "Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, who didst perceive."<br /><br />And that's just one page (296, if you're interested). I stopped reading the collects at that point, reasoning that nothing sensible was likely to follow.<br /><br />It won't make any personal difference to me, since I'm in a parish that doesn't even make use of the propers for the old holy women and men, never mind the new ones.<br /><br />Still, if the church is going to publish shiny new mock-Tudor collects, I think it would be a reasonable expenditure to hire someone who can conjugate the verbs "do" and "love" without error.David Donnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00385229820325403291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-4017297583637373152012-06-21T21:08:43.751-04:002012-06-21T21:08:43.751-04:00Derek Olsen hit the nail squarely: it's "...Derek Olsen hit the nail squarely: it's "the sacramental arc of the Christian life" that sanctoral calendars are concerned with. Yes, St Paul was a terrorist toward Christians, but he converted and his subsequent life was lived solely for the glory of God. Repentant sinners who lifted the cross high should be the primary criteria for inclusion in the calendar. <br /> I must say, though, that I have no problem whatever praying for, and seeking the prayers of, John Calvin, Jerry Falwell, etc., because even though their theological convictions in this life were at odds with that sort of thing, they know better now. So I'm confident they're all busy praying for us "who walk as yet by faith."St Michael's Episcopal Churchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10622056104708014205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-15135275786266725112012-06-21T14:10:26.886-04:002012-06-21T14:10:26.886-04:00Very thoughtful from both sides, yes, I thought of...Very thoughtful from both sides, yes, I thought of I sing a song of the saints of God -- but when I was a kid, I loved to read Butler's Lives of the Saints, if I recall the author's name. Anglicans/Episcopalians do not have the requirement of miracles, etc. as the Roman Church does. Would go with fewer to be included if diversity were really very much present. Thanks for this, looking forward to seeing you at Convention.Richard J.Richard Jordannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-62208914442931495962012-06-21T09:21:27.910-04:002012-06-21T09:21:27.910-04:00When we speak of the saints, we're not just ta...When we speak of the saints, we're not just talking about people and deeds that we remember fondly. <br /><br />Rather, our talk about the saints says quite a lot about the sacramental arc of the Christian life and about giving us firm incarnate pictures of what Christian maturity looks like. <br /><br />I do agree that more diversity would be a good thing. On one hand it gives us a more graphic and colorful picture of "full humanity"!On the other hand, though, the reason for celebrating the various particularities of these people and groups is because they lead us back to the virtues of Christ and a consistent and coherent incarnate witness to the Gospel. (I.e., at the end of the day, it's about Jesus.)Derek Olsenhttp://haligweorc.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-31783535294360717912012-06-21T08:50:28.976-04:002012-06-21T08:50:28.976-04:00Elizabeth covered it pretty well. I do find it odd...Elizabeth covered it pretty well. I do find it odd, almost humorous that anyone whould claim that any who have been chosen for commemoration would be horrified or in any way offended by inclusion. Unless one has had a conversation with any of them, it is pure speculation. I find no harm in honoring those who have done more for the good of humanity in some way than pretty much any of us will ever do. What is the harm of remembering them? I have learned much from reading about these folks over the last few years and am grateful to have had the opportunity. (And I don't care if the Church of Rome has chosen to honor a particular person or not.)Bruce Garnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-13394257099480748832012-06-21T08:49:31.607-04:002012-06-21T08:49:31.607-04:00Well said, Your Grace. May your sense of reason i...Well said, Your Grace. May your sense of reason infect the House.<br /><br />In His Name,<br />Chip Johnson, SF, kibitzerFr. Chip, SFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00481817526445701393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-20490816367862973242012-06-21T08:32:54.251-04:002012-06-21T08:32:54.251-04:00I truly do not understand your arguments, Bishop D...I truly do not understand your arguments, Bishop Dan, which, other than your quibble about "qualifications" (Was not King David a scoundrel? Didn't Paul persecute Christians before his own conversion?) seems to be that we've added too many too soon. <br /><br />I'm not sure that's a real problem. Perhaps for you. I understand. But, not for many of us.<br /><br />My principle complaint is that, while the number of "Saints" increased, as you say, by 82%, the number of women only increased by 2%. The number of people of color and other ethnic/racial minorities increased by about the same rate.<br /><br />Perhaps my sense of the liturgical calendar is different than yours. When I do daily morning prayer (not always from the BCP lest my spiritual practice grow dry and rote so I sometimes use the RC Breviary or Northumbrian or New Zealand prayer book or, sometimes Phylis Tickle's series) the liturgical calendar enriches my life of faith with a bit of historical perspective. I can sing "I sing a song of the Saints of God" and pray the Eucharistic prayers with a bit more expansive clarity.<br /><br />Where's the harm done? <br /><br />I guess I end up with your argument for returning the Episcopal Lectionary as an option for use: More opportunity to study the gospel and those who tried to live it - even if in flawed and faulted ways or even unintentionally - is a good thing. Is it not?Elizabeth Kaetonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787552280232329081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-26846051189251097372012-06-21T00:58:12.687-04:002012-06-21T00:58:12.687-04:00Hear, hear!Hear, hear!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com