tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post7609199566563500666..comments2023-12-25T23:40:17.701-05:00Comments on Confessions of a Carioca: Making Friends with the Imprecatory PsalmsDaniel Martinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15980949721733826978noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-82315463893614436922009-09-29T15:33:18.679-04:002009-09-29T15:33:18.679-04:00It was really just a general comment shedding ligh...It was really just a general comment shedding light on how people can 'interpret' the bible to make themselves feel comfortable. Yeah, I had the homosexual passages in mind, but really, it seems to apply to many things. I don't really buy the poetry explanation, but thanks for the answer :)The bisectional vocalisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03896792642391431177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-70349824114362024942009-09-28T23:03:37.356-04:002009-09-28T23:03:37.356-04:00To the Bisectional Vocalist:
I'm going to take...To the Bisectional Vocalist:<br />I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that "what [you're] talking about" is the passage from Leviticus that is often cited in support of the sinfulness of homosexual acts. Correct me if I'm wrong.<br /><br />In one respect, it's a moot point with me, since I find that passage at best marginally relevant to the question. In my estimation, it's not the "smoking gun" that many (most?) who support the traditional moral view find it to be. Take it away, and I don't think it changes the landscape much.<br /><br />That said, however, we're talking about two very different kinds of literature between Leviticus and the Psalms. Leviticus is mostly a legal code, and it is of the nature of legal codes to be taken pretty much at face value (in their original context, at any rate; I'm not saying every detail of the Mosaic law can be just transplanted into a contemporary context). The Psalms, on the other hand, are poetry, and it is of the nature of poetry to be interpreted with attention to expansiveness, metaphor, and elasticity.Daniel Martinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15980949721733826978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-19583893148651359332009-09-28T19:30:13.933-04:002009-09-28T19:30:13.933-04:00Okay, I waited to comment for about a week, so as ...Okay, I waited to comment for about a week, so as not to appear to be 'shooting from the hip'. My problem with what you said..."we can acquire the habit of "translating" verses of imprecation, redefining the intended target"...is this. How can you redefine the target, when it is so plainly stated, and yet not redefine other Old Testament verses? You know what I'm talking about Fr. Dan...The bisectional vocalisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03896792642391431177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-55362097680856154502009-09-28T07:35:51.532-04:002009-09-28T07:35:51.532-04:00I will second Jackie's take (above). Rather th...I will second Jackie's take (above). Rather than "spiritualize" these Psalms, I believe and teach that they are best understood as turning over our actual (not metaphorical)murderous rage to the Almighty. Yes Lord, this is what I want, but what will actually happen belongs to You, my Sovereign, and only to You.<br />Vengance belongs only to You, and I entrust my ugly hatred, anger, and offended self-righteousness to You.<br />EricfromnewyorkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-34203322313263762752009-09-26T14:31:22.329-04:002009-09-26T14:31:22.329-04:00I look at the sections differently, I guess. What...I look at the sections differently, I guess. What difference is there in this prayer and one that asks for what we in our imperfect wisdom think is a good thing but which in reality would lead to our or someone else's destruction? The key is that they are brought to the one place where no matter what garbage goes in, it is transformed and cleansed. It was truly a turning point in my prayer life when I finally accepted that nothing in my heart was hidden from God and my pretense was harmful to my soul. God wants us to admit what is in our hearts and allow him to do the housekeeping necessary. I believe that if we pray with two intentions - Create in me a clean heart, dear Lord and Not my will but thine be done, all will be well.<br />JackieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-47689280879928187782009-09-23T17:03:28.768-04:002009-09-23T17:03:28.768-04:00Thanks very much for this post. I have resisted f...Thanks very much for this post. I have resisted for many years the recurrent temptation to omit these psalms, and I am glad that I have. I have been doing some thinking about the topic of anger and forgiveness lately, and I think these psalms are very important. I find it easier, though still difficult, to forgive someone who is dead, or otherwise not in a position to hurt me anymore. My anger is justified, but can be turned over to God along with his prayer for mercy for an offender. But for those who are active and unrepentant in evil, it is difficult for me just to let go of the anger by an act of forgiveness. It has become important in dealing with this kind of anger to admit to myself, that my ongoing anger is justified. Then I find I can pray for the other person's repentance and forgiveness while keeping an ardent desire to correct the evil being perpetrated and protect the innocent. Praying these psalms actually helps in these circumstances, as I am not acting violently against the person himself, but praying for God to act against him. Also such imprecatory prayers have in the Christian Tradition a perfectly just target, namely the Devil and his fallen angels, as for them, interestingly, the tradition never offers a prayer for repentance. Using these psalms in this fashion actually has been a great help in managing anger and helping me to forgive my fellow men who persist in evil.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-25157886850574752252009-09-21T10:50:15.136-04:002009-09-21T10:50:15.136-04:00I agree that these verses are not likely to be hea...I agree that these verses are not likely to be heard in the course of regular Sunday "clock punching" worship. They challenge us to confront our dark desires that we ourselves cannot eliminate from our being. <br /><br />Thank you for not retreating to a historical relativistic approach to these verses.Undergroundpewsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10182191422663119484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-63268852936428092292009-09-21T08:04:10.962-04:002009-09-21T08:04:10.962-04:00Very thoughtfull post on creative visualization.It...Very thoughtfull post on creative visualization.It should be very much helpfull<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Karim - <a href="http://www.affirmationsforpositivethinking.com/" rel="nofollow"><br />Positive thinking</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-34346296.post-33234936814368538582009-09-20T19:41:24.637-04:002009-09-20T19:41:24.637-04:00Although I was full of bright intentions when I le...Although I was full of bright intentions when I left seminary, it's only the last 15 years or so that I've been regular in reading the offices. I use the 30 day cycle--but whatever cycle you use, these texts become the background music of life, with phrases popping up unexpectedly elsewhere, and with key moments suddenly lighting up with meaning. --Thanks for this reflection, Dan.Bruce Robisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00193701138386039942noreply@blogger.com